Blue Cavern

I was just wonderring the other night whatever has happened to some of our friends, who haven't posted in a while. If you have heard from anyone of them lately or if you want to add a particular smurfer to the list, just feel free to post them here.

Here are my top 3 smurfers M.I.A.
- Jocelyn
- Fram
- Sharon

I was thinking last week about Fram...He dissapeared and I have not seen him again at belgian fairs

I neither have seen him.

I don't think anybody knows what happened to him. The last we heard was that he had a new baby

We had a few members gone missing this year, I guess it's another sign of the bad economy hitting all of us .... no money or time to look for smurfs

The nice part is that nobody who goes missing..they are always welcomed back with open arms

I guess it's another sign of the bad economy hitting all of us .... no money or time to look for smurfs

I can see the connection but on the other hand they told me posting is for free.
By the way I read that next year will be the worst since 1949 or so so you won't see me very often here yay!

I can see the connection but on the other hand they told me posting is for free.

Who told you that, Gert?

I just put your bill in the mail today

Only kidding...posting is for free.....at least for some

Oops, I'd better check my Paypal account....

Worst year since 1949?

I was told something by one of my marketing teachers a long time ago...can't remember which one..but this is what it was.

We make the economy. As long as the media has us believing there is a crisis, there will be one.
I"m not discounting the "actual" crisis here and now, but the emotional and economical crisis to follow based on our feelings of despair or fear motivating our spending (or lack there of).
In other words, if you have money to spend...spend it!
If everyone stops spending, there's no circulation of wealth..we all suffer, jobs suffer.
If everyone wakes up and realizes they make the economy (the bulk of the economy is in day to day commerce/shopping) by what they spend..and they spend what they normally would instead of cutting everything out but the basics...then we'll be ok. It will still be a bit tough..but it would be "ok".
However, if we keep buying into the whole "fear" thing that the media preaches to us (by their flooding of air time with negatives instead of balancing it with positives), then things will get worse.
It's called "self-fulfilling prophecy".
We've already done this before. Actually, the over-zealous lenders did it, the people who racked up obnoxious debt did it, the people who took on mortgages they couldn't afford did it. I would find it hard to believe that these people didn't know in their hearts at some level that indeed they would eventually pay the price of their actions. However, they were living for the "now" and not looking at the future.
So...here we are, reaping their "self fulfilling prophecy".
For me, I keep re-inventing, finding new markets and focusing on what people will want and need in the future.
I'm on a rant, I know this, but this is what I sincerely feel America needs:
Universal Health Care (those that fear socialism when UHC is mentioned really need to wake up and smell the coffee...every human being on this planet has a right to: food, clothing, shelter, opportunity for advancement...just as every person wants to be: happy, safe, loved (and to love in freedom from tyranny).
I believe the good state of MA is actually using UHC now, and from what I hear everyone is pretty happy. Of course many of our EU friends already know about UHC...and of course there will always be complaints as well as praise as long as the system is run by people...it's just human nature.
Sorry to rant, but when I hear about "bad economy" (and it's nothing personal whatsoever towards those who talk about it...I do, too!) it reminds me of my marketing education.
To draw an analogy you may enjoy:
Smurfs:
They are all pretty much the same, physically. With the exception of diff. sexes between Smurfette and the Smurfs, they are all blue, they all have tails (I've never seen Smurfettes...ladies do keep their secrets), they all need food, shelter, clothing and desire to live safely, happily and with the freedom to love and be loved (self-expression) which comes out in their various talents and personalities.
Yet, they are all loved and treated equally, even when one is arguing with another, if there is peril they all forget their minor differences and work together for the common good.
They are all provided for and have equal opportunity to help within their community.
I would even bet they have UHC, as much as they have universal guidance by Papa Smurf himself, have access to smurfberries, building materials and commodities in Smurf Village.
While I'm not abdicating that Smurfs are Communist (Communism never really worked,and I'm addressing the bizarre online articles that people post about Smurfs in their unwarranted criticism of these sweet little blue elves that all of here adamantly defend) nor even Socialist (many of my friends are in the UK and other socialist systems and I don't want to offend, nor do I think negatively of their systems of gov't.), I'm simply stating that "sharing" the basics and making them available seems to really help the Smurf focus on greater things...like the advancement of the arts (painter, harmony, Dance of the 100 Smurfs), sciences (Astro, Handy's work,Papa's work), mathematics (Again, Handy and Papa come to mind) as well as allowing the other citizens of Smurf village to focus on their own self-improvement while also helping their larger group graduate from the level of "just barely achieving the basics" and achieving loftier goals that people (and Smurfs) SHOULD be attaining at this point in our evolution on this planet.
Universal Health Care: The Smurfs have it, so why can't we in the USA?
Healthy Economy: We can have it, if we focus on staying positive and maintain a world view of the need to distribute human services equally while maintaining healthy free-trade of services.

BTW: I'm running for President of Smurf Village. Please vote for me.

Universal Health Care (those that fear socialism when UHC is mentioned really need to wake up and smell the coffee...every human being on this planet has a right to: food, clothing, shelter, opportunity for advancement...just as every person wants to be: happy, safe, loved (and to love in freedom from tyranny).

This would be horrible for our country...look at our goverment and how they always screw up big things like this. Government needs less overall control in Americans lives and let more private sectors do what they do best. Health care/insurance is in dire need of change, don't get me wrong, but this isn't the way to go. Our friends in the EU and Australia have UHC and still have to pay copayments, have insanely long waits to see doctors and end up with poor to shoddy care at best. Lots of sick people are dying waiting to for an appointment to see doctors and it's a damn shame. I would hate to be forced into something like this when there could be a better way to get health care. I (and Moey - had to add you in there) deal in areas of health insurance so UHC would be a poor way to go. And our inalienable rights are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. All the others would be nice to have as rights but they aren't based on our declaration of independence. One of my favorite quotes re: this is from "The Pursuit of Happyness" Christopher Gardner: It was right then that I started thinking about Thomas Jefferson on the Declaration of Independence and the part about our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And I remember thinking how did he know to put the pursuit part in there? That maybe happiness is something that we can only pursue and maybe we can actually never have it. No matter what. How did he know that? Just had to add my little two cents in here too

Universal Health Care: The Smurfs have it, so why can't we in the USA?

The statement is wrong...simply for the fact that the smurfs do not need any insurance at all...their doctor never ever sends them a bill

Frankly, I think the problem starts with the doctors and not the insurance companies. Insurance companies have contracts with the health providers who agree to accept a certain amount of money for each procedure they perform. If they bill more the insurance company will only pay up to the contracted amount, which leaves a coinsurance and/or deductible for the insured to pay, and the health provider has to write off the difference. One of the reason they bill more is that they can bill uninsured more, too who pay the bill (or don't, but if they don't we all pay it)

Another problem are employers who decide what is covered under their group insurance and what not. It is also they who decide at what coverage level something is covered, directly affected how much each of us have to pay at the doctor office or hospital. True, they have to pay the insurance companies for the coverage, but in the end the employer decides what is covered and some crazy coverages result from that. For example, I was asked by insured why we covered abortion but not birth control, and my answer was that they had to take this back to their employer since we only pay what they want us to pay. Another emloyer decides to cover birth control, so who is to blame for not covering it? If a procedure is being denied by the insurance, it is really denied by the employer (for group insurance) but the insurance company gets the blame.

In a way we already have UHC, because most contracted rates are based on the Medicare approved rate, and guess who governs this rate and Medicare...our government.

There is a new move in group insurance which I really like (and I know it very well as I am dealing with it every day) which is Health Reimbursement accounts (HRA) and Flexible Spending accounts (FSA). The FSA is governed by the IRS since we are dealing with money that was put into the account on a pre-tax basis. The HRA is money the employer gives their employees to offset some of their deductibles. True it is nearly always combined with a high deductible, but what I like very much is that it really emphasizes preventative care which is often covered at 100% meaning the insured has no money to pay to the doctor at all. (Most doctors don't believe that and make the patient pay up front so it is really good to know your medical plan very well)

I could go into more detail, but I think I already have gone far enough. I have dealt with group insurance for nearly 8 years as a processor, trainer and direct contact between the insurance company and employers and don't think UHC is the solution. Having lived in Europe for many years, I know it was great going to the doctor without having to pay them one cent, however this already changed during my last years of living there, and having talked to a lot of people about insurance over there in the past years, I have noticed one thing. They all thought how awful our system is, but when I explained to them the day to day realities of it, they realized how close their system is getting to ours. I also remember that just as I was about to leave Germany, reading in newspapers commentaries about how the insurance field had to change as it was bankrupting the German government. The US government is already bankcrupt...so why add to our debt with UHC?

Like Staci said..more government intervention is not the solution. America is the strongest when "We, the people" take control. Unfortunately, most have become lazy and want to trust the government. Frankly, I can't trust anybody who throws away millions of dollar on ads or shows on primetime TV (or even buying 30 mins of primetime TV) just to be able to convince us how well he can handle money...

I do believe once we start distributing the wealth and to make it all even...we are going down a road of no return

Sorry for my rant, I do tend to be long-winded at times

I Vote for Papa Smurf.

Hello Chris McBrien,
how are you.

Worst year since 1949?

I was referring to the current situation in Germany.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -1949.html
Besides I don't really agree with anything you say about economy. It's not the media that made the global financial crisis.

...if you have money to spend...spend it!

I must say that I'm not sure how to solve the problem but if you have enough money you would spend it anyway, and if you don't have enough money it doesn't help a bit. The economic situation has changed within one year or so, e.g. how should people who took on mortgages have known about it before.

While I'm not abdicating that Smurfs are Communist...nor even Socialist (many of my friends are in the UK and other socialist systems and I don't want to offend, nor do I think negatively of their systems of gov't.)...

I'm not sure what you want to tell us with that. I would eventually vote for the socialist party, or for agent smurf instead. I suppose you didn't study economics at uni.
Happy holidays anyway

I'm glad this stirred up discussion, but I don't like "I don't suppose you studied economics at uni" by agent smurf. This read to me as a blatant cut down, and not called for if it was intended as this (I'm hoping it wasn't, but I sincerely read it as this). I didn't realize I needed a degree in economics to state my own personal feelings.
I liked reading everyone's comments overall, though...even much of "agent smurfs" comments.
I feel like i learned a lot from everyone's comments, it's actually great to read other's feelings and passions about the subjects.
Eggie: I understand the "unfairness" factor a lot, from personal experience. I don't know the perfect answer, but I do hope they can make healthcare available to some degree to everyone some day. I'm not sure what the solution is...I'd just like to see people happy and healthy with even more fulfilling lives.

Chris

I'm glad this stirred up discussion, but I don't like "I don't suppose you studied economics at uni" by agent smurf. This read to me as a blatant cut down, and not called for if it was intended as this (I'm hoping it wasn't, but I sincerely read it as this).

No, it was more a question because you said one of your marketing teachers told you so. Of course you don't need any degree to post here I hope.
I'm having problems to reply to such topics in English anyway because it isn't my first language. You can call me Gert if you like. Don't weigh my words please, I'm not 100% sure what I'm saying.

I'm glad this stirred up discussion, but I don't like "I don't suppose you studied economics at uni" by agent smurf. This read to me as a blatant cut down, and not called for if it was intended as this (I'm hoping it wasn't, but I sincerely read it as this).

No, it was more a question because you said one of your marketing teachers told you so. Of course you don't need any degree to post here I hope.
I'm having problems to reply to such topics in English anyway because it isn't my first language. You can call me Gert if you like. Don't weigh my words please, I'm not 100% sure what I'm saying.

No problem, Gert!
I think it was the way it was worded that I read it initially as a "cut down".
No worries, I was hoping the whole time it was just the way it was typed.
I don't pretend to know much about economics...which is why everyone's posts after mine meant a lot to me....I felt like I got a bigger picture of everything. Part of my frustration is what I was taught (and it's limited) doesn't seem to go with what is going on. Apparently it's not just "spend it if you have it to help others"...it's just not that simple. I think I wish it were...so since the posts above by yourself and others I've been digging around to find out the deeper problems. It seems..unfortunately..to get more complex the more I dig!

So my marketing teachers must have really been idealizing the whole economic thing..or simply didn't want to talk about it and wanted us to focus on marketing.
Kind of frustrating, really.
And UHC....I've taken a serious look at this over the last day...it definitely isn't as easy as many of it's backers say it would be...so I'm really grateful for all the feedback after my rant!!!
thanks, everyone, for your heartfelt replies...very appreciated!

It seems..unfortunately..to get more complex the more I dig!

So my marketing teachers must have really been idealizing the whole economic thing..

Way way more complex!! And to make it worse this is one of the first global economic crises since everything is world economy now and not just one country's or area's economy. So your teachers may not have been idealizing too much but this is a whole new ball of wax in this century. I heard a statistic last week (I may get it a little backwards so excuse or correct me if so please) that normally there is a bear market (recession) every 10 - 12 years and since 1999, we've already had two, which makes it pretty atypical. So, yes very frustrating all around.

I still vote for Papa Smurf. I don't really worry about stuff like that. If it happen it happens to all of us. All I need is a place to sleep. Some food and water every now and then, and a place to keep warm. If I loose all of that then I will worry. I could loose everything I have and wouldn't even bat an eye. Don't get me wrong I don't want to give it all up,although I don't have a whole lot. More than I need all the material things that I have I need friends and people who love me and it will be alright.

I agreee with Chris that the Media is not really faultless in the crises. We can watch the media hysteria everytime there is snow in the forecast down here. They will talk about nothing else than how bad it could get (it never does) and how we need to stock up...and yep milk and bread are sold out within minutes.
Another example were the gas prices and supplies. In October my area was really badly hit by one of the storms that hit New Orleans, because the pipeline that supplies gas to our area was hit and rendered unusuable. Chattanooga was pretty much without gas for about a month and the prizes of course sky-rocketed. Experts kept saying that we should have enough gas but the people topping off their gas tanks were draining the supply. Those people were doing what they thought the news media were telling them...making sure they were not running out of gas. When you hear day in and day out that you have to make sure you aren't running out of gas and that there is no gas to be found, you start to believe it (that's one of the reasons I no longer watch the news).

I have other examples as well and I am aware that this simplifies it all, but I am convinced the media is not blameless at all.

I also am aware that the economy books are probably rewritten as we speak (I heard 7 years, Stace, but that was 10 years ago so I am sure that number is outdated), but it does make that if people keep buying "unnecessary" things, more stuff has to be manufactured which means we need more jobs. The only thing is...if people have no money...how can they afford to buy stuff? If they can't buy things there is no need to manufacture new stuff, so people are losing their jobs.

We also were told for years that this crises is coming as economists kept warning us that the credit bubble we lived in had to burst and come back and bit us in the "you know what"...well...guess what...it did

Chattanooga was pretty much without gas for about a month and the prizes of course sky-rocketed.

Hey Moey; What kind of prizes were they giving out. LOL OH boy I just opened a can of worms for all my typo's and grammar mistakes.
P.S. See I messed that up.

One can of worms coming your way, Bill