[André]

No problems Joaquin,

we still have the nice thread you started when you read this book. Lia still have these copies and I should have them somewhere in the computer also.

I think both you and Lia talked about that the dates of the Kelloggs and the Dupuis smurfs matched but the thing confusing everyone was that Bully was mentioned, right?

And why Bully, Peyo and Dupuis talked about the kelloggs-moulds?

[Lia]

Thanks Lia,

Not too much wine to the dinner though??

I`ll function a lot better wìth wine André

well, first of all: the meaning for moules is molds ( the second meaning is mussels)
I kept all the pages ( which, of course, is not the entire book!) that Joaquin sent me and in fact, I only find the word Bully on page 110, where they say the things you already quoted before.
I personally cannot understand why they mention Bully???
And, like you assume, I too think that the Kellogs smurfs are the Dupuis, but these are marked Dupuis, or Dupui, or not at all.
On page 159, they refer to the big succes that Kelloggs had and the success for the smurfs, given at the petrolstations.
I don`t have page 160

Remains another question....why did Dupuis Union make a second series of smurfs, early seventies, that were so completely different from the first 5 Dupuis smurfs?

Lia

[André]

Thanks Lia,

The reason they mention Bully is that this was the time when Dupuis did not want to be apart of making figurines anymore. And this was when Bully got the rights and the molds. Peyo probably mention this in the book because the figurines was a great success for him and Dupuis made a mistake not taking part in the figurines.

Regarding Dupuis it says like this on internet. And there you see that Dupuis started with other activities besides comics, but these were not that successful and they stopped with these and sticked the the main business which still was successful in the 70s. Probably the Dupuis Union smurfs were made just before Bully started and after this Dupuis had nothing to do with figurines anymore.


"In the early sixties, Dupuis started with other activities, including the merchandising of its comic series (puppets, posters, ...), and the making of animated movies. Most of these weren't very successful but raised the visibility of their comics even more. Still, towards the end of the 1960s, the golden age of Dupuis seemed to be over. Some of the magazines were struggling, the merchandising activities were vastly reduced, and the movie studio didn't seem to get any successful movies. But the core business, the comics and the magazines, continued to be hugely successful, with a comics catalogue of more than 2000 titles available in French."

[André]

Lia,

one reason for the different marking on the smurfs made in 1972 could be that they used the Schleichmolds that Peyo owned. They are marked Peyo Ed Dupuis Union( could mean that they both owned these molds??)Dupuis probably used them together with the comics in some way or sold them as figurines but with less success and therefore was not intrested in any further manufacturing of figurines in 1973/74.

It says when reading about Dupuis that he was mostly intrested in the frenchspeaking countries and therefore probably did not have so much to do with the smurfs being made in germany???

[Smurfysmurf]

Not sure at all about this, but are we sure that the Dupuis smurfs and Dupuis Union smurfs are from the same company? Isn't Dupuis Union a credit union? Not sure why a credit union would make smurfs but stranger things have happened and the Dupuis Union smurfs are very strange looking

[Lia]

no, we are not 100% sure about that.
true, the dupuis union are rare, nice to have, but ugly and badly made while as the 5 Dupuis smurfs are really goodlooking!

Lia

[André]

Not sure at all about this, but are we sure that the Dupuis smurfs and Dupuis Union smurfs are from the same company? Isn't Dupuis Union a credit union? Not sure why a credit union would make smurfs but stranger things have happened and the Dupuis Union smurfs are very strange looking

Maureen,

When reding this marking: Peyo C & Ed Dupuis-union. My first thought is this: Peyo ( Pierre Culliford) and Editor Dupuis.

But I have not check this before. What credit union do you mean? I don´t know so much about these smurfs.

Regarding the quality and the differences; there I don´t see anything strange with that. Not more different when comparing playalong smurfs and Schleichsmurfs. The quality of the figurines are depending on which manufacturer Peyo and Dupuis used to make these. Peyo and Dupuis don´t make the smurfs themselves and the first Dupuis-smurfs where probably made by another company for Dupuis. When these where made around 1972 they probably used a "cheap" company depending on what they wanted them for. Like when putting smurfs in kinder-eggs the quality is not the most important thing. ???

[André]

Regarding the quality compared with markings I show you a picture to explain what I mean.

All these are marked Peyo. But the quality on these are very different depending on which company made them. Fake or genuine. Etc Etc

So just because it is marked Peyo or Dupuis, it still can be very different.

[Pitufo]

Very interesting discussions...I always have wondered why the bad quality of dupuis union smurfs...It is true they are licensed smurfs

It is clear that if BULLY was created in 1973 the smurfs kellogs gave as a present can´t be from their factory, a factory non existing that year. This is the only thing it seems to be 100% sure

[Smurfysmurf]

Andre,
I am not sure that Dupuis-union is a credit union, however, I don't think that Dupuis (the comic book editor) would release figures marking them as Dupuis Union instead of simply as Dupuis as before.

I didn't have much luck when googling Dupuis union, so I am really not sure, but one of the reasons why I never thought the first Dupuis smurfs and the Ed Dupuis Union smurfs were made for the same company is that the molds are completely different...If as you say, Peyo asked Dupuis if they wanted to continue making the smurfs and if not, asked, what to do with the molds, why would they say no to Peyo..and then turn around and make low quality ones and mark them Ed Dupuis Union (Union is the English word for the German Gewerkschaft).

I don't have any of the first Dupuis smurfs, so I can't compare the PVCs between both sets

You are right about the peyo marking...I even go so far as to say just because a smurf as the Peyo marking does not mean it's a licensed one...it just gives credit to the fact that the smurfs (in this case mold) are licensed by Peyo

[André]

Andre,
I am not sure that Dupuis-union is a credit union, however, I don't think that Dupuis (the comic book editor) would release figures marking them as Dupuis Union instead of simply as Dupuis as before.

I didn't have much luck when googling Dupuis union, so I am really not sure, but one of the reasons why I never thought the first Dupuis smurfs and the Ed Dupuis Union smurfs were made for the same company is that the molds are completely different...If as you say, Peyo asked Dupuis if they wanted to continue making the smurfs and if not, asked, what to do with the molds, why would they say no to Peyo..and then turn around and make low quality ones and mark them Ed Dupuis Union (Union is the English word for the German Gewerkschaft).

I don't have any of the first Dupuis smurfs, so I can't compare the PVCs between both sets

You are right about the peyo marking...I even go so far as to say just because a smurf as the Peyo marking does not mean it's a licensed one...it just gives credit to the fact that the smurfs (in this case mold) are licensed by Peyo

Like Joaqion says: a very intresting discussion.

Thanks for helping me Maureen.

This is how I see it.

First Ed Dupuis union is most likely in French. So for me Ed Dupuis means as Dupuis says themselves Editions Dupuis. Union is the same right??

The thing to look at is the thing between Peyo and Ed Dupuis. It is a &.

This for me means Peyo( Pierre Culliford) together with Editions Dupuis.

Now to the second thing Maureen, that explains the question asked to Peyo.

These smurfs were made before Bully got the question and before Dupuis gave Peyo all the rights for the figurines.

So all together something like this.

1. Dupuis molds used for the kelloggs smurfs in 1966.
2. Peyo and Dupuis molds used in around 1972, marked Peyo C & Ed Dupuis Union.
3. When Bully gets the right for all the molds in 1973/74 they also gets all the Dupuis molds and asks Peyo what to do with these. Dupuis answers Peyo they are no longer intrested in making figurines and Peyo get sole rights for all smurfs figurines.

So I think the chronology is correct, but off course we can not say for sure which smurfs were in the Kelloggs boxes.

But for me these things are certain after reading what Peyo said in this book.

1. Bully was not involved in the Kelloggs-smurfs. But obviously Dupuis was very involved in some way!!!

2. When Bully started making smurfs in 1973/74, that´s when Dupuis was no longer intrested in the figurines and Peyo got the sole rights for these. So after 1974 you will not find any Dupuis-smurfs.

Do you agree Maureen??

[Smurfysmurf]

So you disagree with this statement?

Dupuis, editor of the Smurf comics, first produced smurf figurines in 1959. The first one was a series of three figurines, 5 centimeters tall (Papa, Normal and Angry), followed in the next decade by some larger figurines. Those were only for sale in French- and Dutch-speaking countries. In 1965, Schleich, a German company, made the first truly mass-produced PVC Smurf collectible figurines (the first three being Normal Smurf, Gold Smurf and Convict Smurf (complete with black-and-white striped prisoner's outfit). In 1966, Spy Smurf, Angry Smurf, and Drummer Smurf appeared. In 1969, five more smurfs followed: Moon Smurf, Winter Smurf, Brainy Smurf, Guitar Smurf, and Papa Smurf. In the 1970s, smurfs were also produced by rival German company Bully. The first of these figurines were made as a promotion for Kellogg's, but were afterwards sold separately.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Smurfs_(merchandising)

According to this, Kellogg's used the Schleich smurfs for the promotion..and Schleich started with them in 1965


We may have to agree to disagree on the Dupuis and Ed Dupuis Union smurfs Not convinced the later ones were made for Dupuis, the comicbook editor

[André]

Yes Maureen,

I think I showed that text in the thread Joaquin started. The info is from the same source, the author of the Peyo book. But in this case they understand that Bully did not exist then and therefore assumed that Bully then had to make them when they started in the 70s, right.

I think you said in the thread that it must have been different translators?? Same author as the peyo book: Hugues Dayez.

And we have both read that Peyo says that in 1966 they were contacted by Kelloggs and that Dupuis then was involved. And we have also seen the ads from 1966 in Journal le Tintin and Spirou.

Off course Bully could have made smurfs for Kelloggs after 1974 but then they are not the ones Peyo talk about from 1966 in the book.

And I think it is good that we disagree Maureen. On a question like this we don´t have to agree.

[Smurfysmurf]

I agree about the Bully smurfs (hard to disagree about that one ), however, I do believe that Schleich started with the smurfs in 1965..isn't that what their first markings show?

So, for me this makes sense
- late fifties Dupuis creates first smurfs based on the comic books from Peyo..released by Dupuis
- mid sixties, Schleich makes the first smurfs as outlined above with permission from Peyo..since these are so different to the Dupuis smurfs I don't think there was a problem
- beginning/mid 70s for some reason Bully gets the copyright of the smurf figures...and Peyo asks Dupuis about their molds. Dupuis by then is no longer interested in creating toys, and Bully gets these molds as well...

Does this sound about right to you, Andre?

[André]

Yes Maureen.

I did not mention the Schleichsmurfs since they were to obviuos.

As you know I know Schleich made the first smurfs in 1965, so that I think all of us agree with.

And as said before I think Dupuis were only intrested in making the figurines together with comics, kind of promotion, and only in Benelux or frenchspeaking countries.

So if Schleich in Germany made smurfs as loose toys used as give aways at petrolstations or sold in toystores, Dupuis did not care about.

[Azrael]

Nice thread about the book guys! It's got what was allowed by SONY inthere, and while it doesn't have a lot about the figures it does tell a HUGE amount about everything else. The books, tv show, life of Peyo etc.

If you can wait until Monday before you order it, they are going to release something else...

[André]

Hi Alan,

I think it will be a lot of intresting things for many of us in this book!

I also contacted Matt regarding the year Bully started his business, because I thought it could be good for him to know this. And he thanked me for pointing this out and would probably have a place on his website with smaller corrections about the book.

[Azrael]

You can get your own personal copy, with card membership number, of the book here:

http://www.britishcollectorsclub.com/ph ... ?f=6&t=453

Andre, can you PM me your address as I still have your card!

[Smurfysmurf]

Amazon.com has moved the release date of the book up..and even shows it in stock now

http://www.amazon.com/World-Smurfs-Cele ... 364&sr=8-1

The author has his own blog that you can see here

http://smurfology.blogspot.com/

and you can order the book directly from him (full price) with a personalized insert which seems to be a bit different to what the BSCC is offering (won't include the membership number, I think)

http://smurfology.blogspot.com/p/shop-smurfology.html

He is also doing some book signings per amazon

Date City, State Venue Event
Jul 21, 2011
11:00 AM San Diego, California San Diego Comic Con Book Signing at the Abrams Booth #1216

Jul 24, 2011
11:00 AM San Diego, California San Diego Comic Con Book Signing at the Abrams Booth #1216

Aug 6, 2011
12:00 PM BETHLEHEM, PENNSYLVANIA Starters Riverport Book signing.

Aug 9, 2011
5:00 PM Bethlehem, Pennsylvania Starters Clubhouse Book signing

Nov 19, 2011
10:00 AM Allentown , PENNSYLVANIA Merchants Square Mall Great Allentown Comic Con

Whew I think this covers about all...

[Azrael]

No. The tip-ins are only what collector club members are getting. You can read the thread if you like guys. Matt is a fellow collector and is doing this as a thanks to all the loyal fans like us.